Prince of Wales Pub Coleshill Street/Gem Street 1940

Does any one know if this Prince of Wales Pub was on the opposite corner to Holders Music/Concert Hall as the Music/Concert Hall was on the corner of Coleshill Street/Gem Street.

Also, please, does anyone know what STC means.

Lynn.

Lynn

on This Plan the Gaiety Palace was at No1 and the Prince of Wales was at No 2. If we are talking about property matters I would think STC means subject to contract.

Phil

Lynn

On this photo you can just see the Prince of Wales on the corner of Gem Street opposite the Gaiety.

Phil

This is a 1969 picture and I don't think it's the same building/door way as the 1940s picture, but is the same doorway as your picture Phil withthe corner of the Gaiety in it. Has any one got any more pictures of this Prince of Wales Pub.

Lynn.

This is the back of the picture with STC on it. I didn't post the other picture very clearly and it just seemed strange to have on the back of a photo. Lynn.

Lynn

Perhaps the pub had been sold at the time but still was Subject to Contact at the time. Has not the pub got a "For Sale" or "Sold" sign attached to it that you can see. Can you post a copy of the photo, I'm sure there are one or two of on here that would like to see it.

Phil

The 1940s picture is the one that I put on 1st and its this one that I don't think that the door frame and building look the same.
I post the same picture again.

Lynn.

Lynn

The first pub (sorry I missed it) is the one that I remember. There has obviously been some remodelling between the two photos, which is the 1940 photo. If it is the second one, then it could be a great deal earlier than 1940. I'll give you a tip never believe any of the details given with old photos unless you know them to be true.

Phil

Phil,
I fully agree with you to not believe what one sees with many things but I have to start somewhere and this is were you have been so good in trying to direct me in the right direction. With these photos I was just using the dates on the back to say which picture was which, and as you say there must have been some remodelling along the line if the two pictures are the same pub. Do you know the date of the picture with the corner of 'The Gaiety Palace in it'
Thanks, if you do.
Lynn.

Lynn

The caption on the photo says the 1940's I would think that about right and from the style of the clothes and the cars I would say the late 1940's.

Phil

Thanks Phil,

Lynn. These captions are great.

Lynn
I don't think the two buildings are the same. However, the pictures definitely show the sign for coleshill St. I reckon the pub was completely rebuilt in 1927 (which would about fit with the style of the newer version). The older version, with the lamp, is definitely of an earlier period. It is possible (indeed probable 'if the pub was completely rebuilt) that the pub was closed for a period. This would explain the incorrect entry in McKenna's "Central Birmingham Pubs " vol2. Discussing Coleshill St, on page 144 he just states that the Prince of Wales was opened in 1927, without any mention of a pub there earlier. However in the 1901 census the pub is named at that position, though , curiously the only people listed there were the head of the family ( a brass polisher), his wife ( a warehouse forewoman) and two children aged 2 & 8, so I am not sure who served the drinks !! It was very common for the landlord to have another job, but then, usually, his wife ran the place. It was still listed as a beer retailer in 1921, presumably under the same name. Anyway, if it had closed for rebuilding for a time, this may be why McKenna missed its earlier incarnation.
Mike

Mike,

I do so thank-you for your detailed reply with detailed references, and that certainly sounds the most reasonable explanation.

Lynn.

This is what I found.
1867-Peter Dean beer retailer, Gem Street was then called New Thomas Street.
1905-James Samuel Miller.
1943-Joseph Price.

John,
Thanks, that's a little more to add on.
May I ask, does anyone know the date that Gem Street changed to be called New Thomas Street or was it the other way around.
Lynn.