RE: Holders Pubs in Birmingham, - 6

Lynn

I came across this photo yesterday, I thought it might interest you. It is both sides of a token for the Royal Oak, Ashted Row, Ashted (Nechells) a Holders pub. The only Royal Oak I remember was on Great Lister St, but this one was on Ashted Row , I can find no record of it though.

Phil

Cannot yet find the royal Oak, but Alber Howen (missprint?) was at a beer retailer at 29 Ashtead row in 1897. He is not there in 1896 or 1899. No 29 is marked in red on map, between windsor st & Lawley St

Mike

It looks as if it was one of these pubs that was only a beer house and never named in Kelly's at least. It was still there in 1903 run bt a Ernest.T.Roberts. In my next directory 1912 there is no mention of No 29.

phil

Have now found no 29 in the 1891 census , listed as the Royal Oak Inn. Can't find an albert Howes in the licensed trade in either 1891 or 1901 in the Birmingham area though, so heprobably just tried it the once
Are you interested in the landlords of thepub?
Mike

No Mike

I have no interest whatsoever, but I just thought that Lynn might being as it must have been a Holders pub.

Phil

Well, Lynn, if you do, then let me know and I will give you what i can find.
Mike

Firstly Phil, thanks for the picture of the coin - Where on earth did you find it. Do you collect coins, by any chance. I have collected 8 different coins for the Holder's Concert/Music Hall but had not thought of Pub -Coins/Tokens before , so shall be looking out for these now as well.

Mike, Thanks for the offer of anything that you can find on the Royal Oak - I would love to file anything that you can find.
It's a pity that you can't find an Albert Howes as that would help to date the coin.

Can either of you read the writing around the 3D side.

Lynn.

I do believe the albert Howen was a missprint for Howes (Have just realised I missed off the t in albert in my original post). In 1891 there were only two albert Howens listed in england and wales (both in Blaenllechau, in wales), and one of these was born in 1889, so that couldn't be the same one, and the other was a collier. It could be the second one, but, with the evidence of the coin, I think Howen was a missprint.
Also, can only find two deaths for an albert Howen (though that makes nothing certain.) One was born 1911, the other 1935
Anyway will sort out the Royal Oak landlords later for you
Mike

Right Lynn
Landlords for The pub at 29 Ashted Row (Royal Oak in 1891 and 1862):

From directories
1845 William Chattaway (& spoon polisher)
1849 James Ryan
1852 George John Davies
1855 John Plimer
1858 Frederick Crompton
1862 Walter Smallman (Royal Oak named) Also a Walter Smallman , coal dealer, just round corner 216 Lawley St
1867 William Arnold
1868 William Wright
1872-73 W.Timmins
1876-80 Albert Green
1882-84 Benjamin Waldron
1888-92 William Honywood
1895 Mrs Mary Honywood
1896 John Iliffe
1897 Albert Howen (?)
1899-1908 Ernest T. Roberts
1910, 1912 –Not listed


Censuses
1851 George Davis , rule maker
1861 Joseph Jerrington brush maker
1871 William Robinson Retail brewer
1881 Benjamin Waldron , whitesmith & beer house keeper (there is also a general dealer at back of 29,. This not listed in other years)
1891 William Honywood beer retailer, Royal Oak named
1901 Ernest Roberts , beer retailer
You will note that in 1851 & 61 the pub is not mentioned on the census. This is not uncommon with beerhouses. Am not sure if it is because the licensee hires out the upstairs , but does not live their themselves, or th eoccupants hire out the pub bit, or whether they don't consider the pub their main occupation. Certainly most beerhouse licensees seem to have another occupation, and sometimes theya re listed as xxx, while the wife is the person running the pub
Mike

The wording around the edge is LEWIS BUSH (RUSH) DIE SINKER MILLER STREET ASTON

Sorry John? Have you got the right thread?
mike

Thanks Mike, You've put a lot of work into all of that. I shall now collect anything that I can on the Pub - Royal Oak, 29, Asted Row - Holders Ales.
I should think that in 1897 that Albert Howen - as you said - was possibly a misprint for Albert Howes - as on the coin.
Lynn.

John,
Thanks for the reading on the coin. I would have been unable to figure that out.
You can tell Mike that he has got the right thread, and that it's me mixing him up by putting so many questions under one heading.
Lynn.

Phil,
Have you any idea where you originally got the picture of the coin.
Lynn.

Lynn

I got the photos from this site,

http://ashtead.org/ashtead/ashted.htm

Phil