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RE: Iconic buildings of Birmingham, some still with us some now gone.

#61 by Voltman , Thu Apr 08, 2010 6:03 pm

Is the Rotunda going to get the chop?

That and the Central Library are on my hit list.
VM


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RE: Iconic buildings of Birmingham, some still with us some now gone.

#62 by Sheldonboy , Thu Apr 08, 2010 8:23 pm

No VM the Rotunda isn't gettin g the Chop. It's just undergone a complete refurb as I am sure you know.
The new library is being built to replace the concrete rubbish of the Central Library. There have been moves fairly recently to have the Central Library saved for it's Architecural Excellence. In my opinion if any City deserved to lose any Building at anytime, It's this city, This Library and NOW. SB


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RE: Iconic buildings of Birmingham, some still with us some now gone.

#63 by phil ( deleted ) , Thu Apr 08, 2010 8:30 pm

I don't think the Rotunda is that bad a building, and I think it's now an iconic part of Birmingham. Which library are you referring to, because I think the old one just suffered from a lot of bad press. The one they are building now, I don't know too much about, but I will have a little bet now. By the time they finish it, it will have cost double the original estimate.

I don't know how that works, VM you like myself have probably tendered for contracts in the past and occasionally like myself again been successful. Let me ask you how much over that tender price you have been allowed to go. I'm not talking about extras or contingencies but on the original quote. I was never allowed to add one penny.

Phil


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RE: Iconic buildings of Birmingham, some still with us some now gone.

#64 by Sheldonboy , Thu Apr 08, 2010 8:36 pm

The Library is the Square Tiered Concrete monstrocity between the Town Hall and Broad Street. I watched it being built inb the mid sixties, I have always hated it.


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RE: Iconic buildings of Birmingham, some still with us some now gone.

#65 by phil ( deleted ) , Sun Apr 11, 2010 7:19 pm

This photo of Blakesley Hall was taken in 1870. I was comparing it with a modern photo and I got to wondering. Why did they demolish that wonderful little house to the right of the Hall. I wonder who lived there originally. obviously somebody who worked at the Hall.

Phil


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RE: Iconic buildings of Birmingham, some still with us some now gone.

#66 by Sheldonboy , Sun Apr 11, 2010 8:23 pm

The only thing I can think Phil is on the right hand side of Blakesley Hall, is a barn. It's now part of the museum but as it was a working farm I would imagine access to the Barn was seen as more important. If you havn't visited Blakesley Hall for as while I thoroughly recommend it. SB


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RE: Iconic buildings of Birmingham, some still with us some now gone.

#67 by phil ( deleted ) , Tue Apr 20, 2010 12:54 pm

This building opened in 1842 and cost £2,400 to build this money was raised by donations and the sale of 3000 shares at £1 each. These shares could be paid for at a rate of 6d a week for 40 weeks. The building was built on the corner of what are now Lower Loveday St and Princip St.
The building was supposed to cater for the betterment of the working man and contained a lecture and exhibition hall, bathrooms, kitchen and a library in fact everything needed for the improvement of the working class.

Oddly or some may say obviously the hall was not a success, and closed a few years after it opened. One reason given for its closure was “Being the excessive distance from the town centre” though in those days when most people walked everywhere that’s a pretty poor excuse.

There is some doubt as to if the building ever looked as it does in the drawing or if there was not more than a little artistic licence taken. The second photo of the building is taken many years later when it had been much altered and was being used as a factory.

Phil


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RE: Iconic buildings of Birmingham, some still with us some now gone.

#68 by Voltman , Sun Apr 25, 2010 5:38 pm

Phil,
Going back 2 weeks.....I do mean the current Central Library, it isn't even finished, at best it looks like a block of unfaced concrete. It should indeed be listed, just not on any list that propses it have a future.

I do quote for work and if I get the price wrong it is at my own expense. I know that if you give an estimated price then this isn't fixed but should be within 10% of the final invoice. It seems in Public Works you only have to give the lowest guess and once you have started the job you can demand any amount required to finish it.
VM


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RE: Iconic buildings of Birmingham, some still with us some now gone.

#69 by Voltman , Sun Apr 25, 2010 5:46 pm

Blakesley Hall has a history of various outbuildings, extensions and lean to's that have come and gone.
The little house may even have fell down if it was built on the cheap by one of the farmers.
VM


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RE: Iconic buildings of Birmingham, some still with us some now gone.

#70 by phil ( deleted ) , Sun Apr 25, 2010 5:55 pm

VM

I know that when estimating a job as opposed to a quoting for a job that you should be allowed a little increase of around 10%. But have you ever tried asking for one. The same as yourself I never even bothered to ask because I learnt from experience what the answer would be.

What I found annoying was that Councils & Government departments were the worst. So I just don't understand how they get these large increases. Do you know when they demolished Bingley Hall and the old Brewery for the NIA. The price that won the tender was stupid. On completion of the works there was still a large square tower left in the middle of the site. When the contractor was asked why it was still standing he replied "because I haven't priced to demolish it" on checking the schedules this was found to be true. So they said to him without asking for a price first "you had better carry on". He charged them more to demolish that tower than he did to clear the whole site. There wasn't a thing they could do but pay up.

Phil


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RE: Iconic buildings of Birmingham, some still with us some now gone.

#71 by Voltman , Wed Apr 28, 2010 9:31 am

Phil,

I don't suffer from unfair competition very often, mainly because my customers know I am fair with my charges.
Just occasionly though, usually for the city, I lose out to a contractor that hasn't detailed his quote, very similar to the Bingley Hall scenario.

I always give very detailed quotes that say as much about what isn't included as they do about what is, this is mostly for my own protection but also leaves no doubt about what I am quoting for.
Some contractors must say simply "To carry out Job XY as loosely discussed on site 6 months ago" for which they quote the lowest price. No one knows what the hell is included but they get the job anyway due to the lowest price wins rule.
So no surprise when it turns out that they only quoted for half the job and then they get the rest as extra's.
VM


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RE: Iconic buildings of Birmingham, some still with us some now gone.

#72 by phil ( deleted ) , Wed Apr 28, 2010 9:55 am

VM

I don't know how they quote in the sparks game, but in ours we were always given Bills of Quantity. These mapped out exactly what we were tendering for complete with measurements.

These documents had to be completed in full with every item and aspect itemised. These were a prerequisite of any Council contract. Obviously on the tender for Bingley Hall and the Old Brewery the tower must have been missed out. But the contractor must have spotted this when he did his inspection of the site for the tender.

Phil


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phil

RE: Iconic buildings of Birmingham, some still with us some now gone.

#73 by Voltman , Wed Apr 28, 2010 10:48 am

I've seen those documents Phil but never had to tender in that way.


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RE: Iconic buildings of Birmingham, some still with us some now gone.

#74 by phil ( deleted ) , Wed Apr 28, 2010 1:18 pm

VM

This type of Tender with a very long list of other reasons were the deciding force in our packing it in after 40 years. Besides the health problems of myself and my uncle, there was the ever increasing price of everything, and all the new taxes.

On top of that there were these pages and pages of itemised tendering, plus a health and safety statement particular to each job and then a method statement for each stage of the job. The thing is nobody wanted to pay for all this extra work on top of the job. It often took me over a week to price a simple job that at one time I would have given a lump sum price for after walking around the site.

Phil


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RE: Iconic buildings of Birmingham, some still with us some now gone.

#75 by Voltman , Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:53 pm

Oh yes Phil, method statements, risk assesments, etc.
What a pointless pile of bull.

I remember not so long ago when the paperless office was a reality, I worked toward it as far as I could go.
But now things are swinging back the other way. I renewed my PL insurance earlier this year and received 86 pages of documentation.
I called into their office to pay and was handed about 20 pages, it was only because I gave them my email address that I was able to get the rest of it in PDF form otherwise they would have had to print the lot out. I simply don't have the will to read that much crap.
Some companies seem to employ people soley for the purpose of checking everyone elses documentaion. Where will it end?
VM


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